Kabir Deb: Hey Parth! How are you doing?
I want to congratulate you for the amazing journey that “Pokhar ke Dunu Paar” is on. My first question is about the experience of its journey. It constantly moves towards the bodies of freedom, bondage and everything in between. What drove you towards writing a story that can be equally disturbing and soothing for those who are associated with the film as artists and viewers?
Parth Saurabh: Hi Kabir, I’m doing well. Thank you for the opportunity to answer some insightful questions about the film. I think the film emerges from the state I have often found myself in Darbhanga, my hometown. While it offers men unlimited freedoms, it simultaneously keeps women away from them. Though I have enjoyed those freedoms as much as I could, I have also spent time understanding how women feel when their existence in a place becomes a form of bondage for them. So, I think that’s where the duality of the film emerges from. It celebrates a lack of structure, while also feeling guilty about it. I gravitated towards the story of an eloped couple set in Darbhanga due to these reasons. I think my feelings for my hometown are engulfed in this duality. Where I want the soothing experience of being there while reminding myself that the soothing experience also carries within it a disturbing experience for the women in my life.
KD: Chuang Tzu once said,
“When we sleep, our spirits roam the earth,
When awake our bodies are alert.
Both the leading characters of the film, played by Abhinav Jha and Tanya Khan Jha attain a state of rest and are also pushed towards facing the ripples around them. Is it a part of every human relationship? Or is it just a story about the seismic love that grows between Sumit and Priyanka?
PS: I think the state of rest emerges from the time the story is set in. During Covid, our lives had come to a standstill. Not knowing what the future held, it was difficult to plan for it. So, we had reverted to accepting not doing anything. But it’s impossible to achieve a complete state of rest, except in death. Since we constantly need things, it’s also important to accept the ripples around you. While Priyanka was conscious of the ripples around her, Sumit, like a cigarette butt, floated on those ripples, not knowing he has lost his footing.
KD: In the film, the color red penetrates in a very strong and subtle manner. From Priyanka’s saree to Sumit’s pants to the color of the mosquito net. From a cinematic point of view, it comes in the form of a certain message especially when the insignia of communism is so vivid in many scenes of the film. Could you shed a light on the inclusion of this particular colour in multiple frames showcasing all its shades?
PS: When planning the color palette alongside Pradeep Vignavelu, the film’s cinematographer, we wanted to go for a blue-red palette for the two characters. I think Priyanka’s situation was very well expressed through blue, so we had decided to keep that as the color for her character. While Sumit’s character’s color was red. That was the framework we were operating in. Instead of attaching any particular meaning to a color, it was used more to create a visual design. And hence, you see red strongly in the film. In the case of the saree she is wearing, I wanted a sense of her being trapped inside that redness, whose association we had developed by having Sumit wearing shades of red constantly.
KD: In a frame, after a fight between Sumit and Priyanka, the former is seen smoking a cigarette outside the home in open air while the latter is sitting on the bed with fingers clenching the bed tightly. There’s a desire to be free, but the masculine energy of Sumit overpowers the choice of Priyanka. How would you like to address the situation of Indian women who are involved in many forms of such a relationship (not necessarily romantic)? Also, if you think about this scene which you directed, what’s the first thought that grows in your mind?
PS: I think it’s very tragic, the situations that women in large parts of our country, still find themselves in. Patriarchy teaches them that they need a man in their life to be complete. Ever since childhood, it’s portrayed to them that their wedding day and the day they give birth are the two greatest days of their lives. Because of this programming, situations like Priyanka’s emerge. Though it’s obvious that she is way more ambitious than Sumit, she still intends to fulfil her ambition through him, instead of seeking independence.
When I think about this scene, I remember the process of how it came about. In the script, they scene ended on a completely different note. But when we shot it, I realized that it was still incomplete. It didn’t take me where I wanted to go with it. So, I re-wrote while the shoot was ongoing and a few days later, we shot it again. And this time Abhinav, while playing the scene, started crying and we incorporated that into the scene. Piece-by-piece the scene became what it is right now. Editing it was also quite a nightmare. Because I realized while editing, how close Abhinav had managed to reach to the way I cry as well. So, listening to his dialogues repeatedly while editing caused an extreme restlessness in me, akin to a panic attack. I think it’s impossible to think of the thought the scene emerged from, because once you’ve created it, the things you most remember are the experiences you had while making it.
KD: ‘Pokhar’ means Pond. People strike a pond with many things knowing it is never going to protest. Also, ‘Dunu Paar’ represents two banks of a pond between which ripples, depth, thoughts, emptiness and even life thrives. Sumit and Priyanka are with each other but we get to see the exhaustion right on their faces. Is it a result of the circumstances of the lockdown which they’re passing through? Or there’s a big theme you tried to address through the title and the story?
PS: The trigger of Sumit and Priyanka’s situation is the lockdown. Had it not been for the lockdown, it could have taken Sumit and Priyanka several years to realize that they shouldn’t be with each other. Because, even though Delhi was also financially difficult for them to handle, it was still full of freedom for both of them. Had it not been for the Covid crisis, they would not have realized that they aren’t happy in this relationship. But the title talks about more than that. For me, the film deals with the gender duality, which has Sumit and Priyanka standing on different sides of the pond. Priyanka also has her father and lover standing on either side of the pond. Hence, this title.
KD: Whenever there’s a scene between Sumit and Nihal, as a cinephile, I get to witness a genuine conversation. How hard is it to bring the true form of conversation in a film when most films focus on dialogues? Also, what’s the process behind converting a dialogue into a conversation?
PS: I believe conversation should be different from written text. Dialogues truly come alive when actors give them the personality of their own language and manner of speaking. For ‘Pokhar Ke Dunu Paar’, I gave complete freedom to the actors. I asked them to read the scene beforehand, but never asked them to memorize the dialogues. Instead, they were free to develop their own way of talking. This process added a lot of life to the script. We also rehearsed the scene multiple times with the actors and sometimes we also did multiple takes of the scene. I used to note down their random improvisations which I liked and would ask them to repeat them in the next take. This way we kept developing the language of the film during the shoot.
I think it’s easy to achieve this naturalism. By taking responsibility for their own dialogues, not only do actors give better performances but they also add so much life to the film. Obviously, there are styles of film-making where this approach would not be successful. But if you have a laid-back rhythm in your film and you want to observe life unfold at its own pace on camera, I think it’s essential that film-makers use this naturalistic approach towards dialogue. As this approach really makes the audience feel as if they are in the place where the film is set, observing real people and not fictional characters.
KD: Achal Mishra’s ‘Dhuin’ also focuses on the struggle of an individual on the path of attaining success after the lockdown. The economic breakdown of the nation eroded the fundamental pedestal of people, their passion and their relationships. What are the various changes you got to observe in people while and after making this film? Did they help you in creating images inside your mind?
PS: Absolutely! The way the central government and several state governments handled the lockdown in India was disturbing to say the least. Migrants who flock to big cities and live hand to mouth were suddenly out of a job at an unprecedented scale. It was crores of migrants who were suddenly out of a job. They had to return home, not knowing where their next paycheck was coming from. So many businesses closed down, never to re-open. It created a huge shift in the way people started looking at life and their place in the scheme of things. I remember going back to Darbhanga in June 2020, and for the first time, seeing so many people in their 20-s there. All of them unemployed, with no scope of employment either, in the city they found themselves in. All of their time was spent drinking and doing drugs. Hanging out with other friends seemed like the only way to get through this crisis. If you stay intoxicated, maybe you would realize that this was all just a dream. The film, and especially all the scenes of friends hanging out purposelessly emerged from there. That’s why in the long drinking scene, I also wanted the audience to feel as if the scene was emerging from an absolute boredom. It isn’t as if they are enjoying themselves there. It’s just that the alternative is to sit and sulk.
KD: During the lockdown, many individuals (of the privileged class) started taking interest towards investing their time in watching independent Indian films. Do you think the lockdown brought some changes in the realm of Indian cinema in terms of consumption of good stories?
PS: Yes, some people did subscribe to Mubi during the lockdown and got interested in independent films. But that population is still rather small. And even that audience isn’t ready to pay a ticket fee to watch these films. If we had released ‘Pokhar Ke Dunu Paar’ in the theatres, barely anybody would have gone to see it. So, even though, people are paying platforms that host these films, very little of that money comes back the creators. So, despite the fact that the audience has grown for films like mine, the financial situation of these films is still the same. We need to still further grow and consolidate our audience or else independent film-makers will keep on disappearing after making one film, unless the film-maker himself/herself is privileged enough to keep making loss making films.
KD: In the film, when Priyanka’s friend keeps her marital life before her, we get to see the dilemma on her face. What, according to you, is the fear that grows in a woman when she gets into the institution of marriage? Also, how did the lockdown treat the women of India from every community and class of our society?
PS: I think there are multiple fears that a woman has to deal with in relation to her marriage. She abandons her home to move to a completely new household. It’s almost like getting a new identity, especially in the case of arranged marriages. You have to now believe that this strange place is your home and your in-laws are your parents. In Darbhanga, it is even a common custom for the groom’s family to give the bride a new name, making her a completely new person. Imagine not being called the name you have had for your entire life. Add to that, she now has to deal with expectations of her husband, of her in-laws. And our society, especially in the heartland, gives complete power to the husband. We are a country where there is no such thing as marital rape. I think it’s impossible to summarize here everything that a woman would fear getting into an arranged marriage. But there are a lot of things, not all of which, I have been able to cover in the film.
I think the lockdown made all divides worse. I remember there was such an increase in cases of domestic abuse. And while the men in several households were at home, unemployed, the work that housewives were doing never ceased. And even while they were home, so many men, refused to do even the most basic household chores, only adding to the work those women had to do. Even in good-income households, since maids could no longer come to your home, all the work was laid down on the shoulders of the wife. So, I believe, women of all communities and classes of society suffered a worse fate during the lockdown.
KD: The sexual energy between Sumit and Priyanka becomes evident when the latter gets drunk and breeds compassion for her lover. Yet the change in Sumit never arrives. He is in the state of constancy. The idea of love starts fading from the very start of the film. What, according to you, is very important in a relationship that also goes beyond love and the bond itself?
PS: I think the most important thing in a relationship is communication and understanding your partner’s needs. You might not be able to fulfil all their needs, but it’s always important to hear and understand what they want. Any relationship can only work if both partners put in the required physical and emotional effort. Sometimes, you do need to become the support structure of your partner. You can’t be emotionally unavailable when your partner is at their most vulnerable. And when battling any big crises, it’s important that both of them put in a combined effort into combating it. But for that to occur, a major change needs to be brought in our upbringing. Patriarchy in India has brought up men to be emotionally distant creatures, who are, most of the times, unable to shoulder the emotional weight of a situation. Sometimes, when you can’t carry the physical weight, it’s important to at least be there for your partner. That change will probably never arrive in Sumit, since he was set up to fail in situations like this.
Parth Saurabh is the film director behind Pokhar Ke Dunu Paar (2022), That Transient Interval (2017), and The Ballad of Toyuk (2017). He can be found on Instagram.
Kabir Deb is the Interview Editor, Usawa Literary Review
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